Zohra Noori is a psychologist and counsellor who has worked for more than a decade providing professional support in Kabul. She completed her specialized studies in psychology in Tehran and holds specialized credentials and training in counselling and mental health.
Over the course of her professional career, Zohra Noori has provided ongoing psychological counselling services to a large number of women, girls, and young people in Kabul and Herat.
In this exclusive interview conducted by Zan Times’ Yalda Amini, she expresses her concern about the mental state of females in Kabul, explaining that social pressures, restrictions, isolation, and difficult living conditions have caused serious harm to the mental health of many young people and girls. Some issues include self-harm and even attempts to die by suicide. She also says that the rise in psychological disorders and problems among these groups can, in some cases, require urgent, serious attention.
Zan Times is using the pseudonym of Zohra Noori to protect her safety. This interview has been edited for style and length.
Zan Times: How did the Taliban return to power in 2021 affect how girls and women come to counselling centres?
Zohra Noori: Unfortunately, in Afghanistan, people’s familiarity with counselling centres is limited, and many believe that someone must be “mentally ill” if they go to see a psychologist. It is taken as a kind of weakness. This mistaken belief has meant that psychological illnesses that disrupt a person’s peace of mind are not taken seriously, and most people, instead of consulting a psychologist, seek physical treatments, because they assume the problem lies with their body.
After the change of regime, the number of people coming to us increased, because the harder the conditions become, the more problems naturally arise, and women find they need mental health treatment more. These women can be divided into two groups.
The first group are those who have withdrawn into complete isolation due to bitter experiences in their lives. Some men do not even allow their wives to leave the house, including visiting a counselling centre. We have clients who, despite an urgent need for in-person counseling, can only send messages by mobile phone or WhatsApp, and we try to address their problems through that channel alone.
The second group are those who come more often to mental health treatment, because they want to reach at least the level of calm they need. I have had many clients, especially young girls who previously had good mental well-being, but who fell into severe depression after they lost their jobs and their place in education due to the return of the Taliban. Unfortunately, hardships, problems, and turmoil have caused the number of people coming to us to increase.
ZT: Is the ban on education one of the main causes of girls’ psychological problems?
Noori: Absolutely, yes. In our educational work, when we talk with parents and introduce our programs to them, we always say that children should be encouraged and motivated to study in the primary grades. After that, they gradually find their own personality; some from grade four, others from grade six onward. At this stage, girls understand that studying benefits them and can shape their character.
This is a very serious and precise process that takes shape through planning. Girls who, in grade six, were deprived of schooling, unfortunately developed a kind of psychological complex. If this issue is not taken seriously today, this complex will become far more severe and dangerous in the future and will bring many serious problems for these girls.
There are older individuals as well who have been pushed out of work and education, and this is very painful for them. Some of them had endured very difficult circumstances, incurring heavy costs, for example, to study medicine.
In Afghanistan we have always struggled with economic poverty. Girls who managed to study for eight, seven, or four semesters, kept on with their education by eating dry bread, walking to university on foot, or giving up every extra expense, all to pay their university fees and study. . Some of their fathers were cart-pushers [street vendors] who found money to pay for those enormous costs by any means possible.
They had reached their final semesters at university, but when the time came to graduate and be able to support their families, they were deprived of continuing their education by the Taliban. This is truly horrifying. The conditions these girls face are extremely heavy and exhausting. We see this situation up close in our counselling centres. Sometimes we genuinely don’t know what to say; we can’t even offer them comfort, because the hardships they have endured and the conditions they are now forced to live in are truly agonizing.
This applies to those already working in their fields. For example, a woman who was once a university professor is today forced to weave loofahs at home or make handmade items to sell. This is truly a crisis, an extremely difficult situation for a woman whose professional and social identity has been taken from her. This alone causes psychological distress, depression, aggression, and many other problems that can affect a woman.
ZT: In the course of your counselling work, have you come across girls who were victims of forced marriage or girls forced into hard labor?
Noori: Unfortunately, yes, we have encountered both forced marriages and hard labour imposed on girls.
Of course, I should say that marriages are not always forced. Unfortunately, they have not yet reached the intellectual maturity needed to make decisions about their future lives. They suddenly enter a shared life without giving consideration as to whom the other person is or what they are like; it is enough that someone will cover their living expenses.
Even in childhood, the wedding ceremony itself appears beautiful and appealing to girls, and this alone makes them willing to marry young. This reflects mistaken beliefs that unfortunately exist in Afghanistan.
Alongside this, we cannot place the entire blame on families either, because economic conditions and the particular circumstances of life in Afghanistan have made having a daughter a heavy burden for families, both in terms of psychological security and physical safety. Since girls cannot be kept at home indefinitely, families are forced to marry them off as soon as someone appears who can provide for them and cover the costs of life, without being aware of the possible risks of this decision.
We see the results of these marriages today. In just the past few years, many girls who married, whether by their own will or someone else’s, have either divorced, or suffered an emotional divorce, or have only just realized how mistaken their marriage was. This situation has had serious negative effects on child-rearing, family life, and the mental well-being of these girls themselves.
Regarding hard labour, I should also say that unfortunately we have had many such cases. Some girls are not even allowed to take part in one- or two-hour educational programs, because they are forced to weave carpets or work in other people’s homes for a meager wage. This situation is often due to pressure from mothers or relatives, which itself stems from the family’s weak economic situation. They push their children into work entirely unsuited to their age: factory work, sewing, carpet-weaving, and the like. For a girl of 13, 14, 15, or 16, these are forms of hard labour.
ZT: Do women legally have access to psychological counselling?
Noori: Yes. Women legally have access to psychological services, but in practice either the costs are too high and they cannot afford them, or the obstacles you mentioned earlier — such as family circumstances — do not allow it. Another issue is that most psychologists work within medical treatment centres. When a woman visits such a location, unfortunately, she is labeled “crazy,” both in her own eyes and in the eyes of those around her. People say, “The poor thing has gone mad since she’s going to see a psychologist.” This belief is completely wrong.
ZT: Do families allow their daughters to see a counsellor?
Noori: It depends.
Some girls can come to us freely, speak comfortably, and receive guidance. Some families, due to their own cultural restrictions, do not allow their daughter to come for counselling at all and consider it a very bad thing for her.
Another group is entirely opposed to counselling itself. They feel that their daughter’s “eyes will be opened” or she will become “shameless” if they come to a counselling centre. She’ll become impudent, they say. Based on this mistaken belief, they simply do not allow her to come at all.
We deal with all three groups. For those who come freely, with the encouragement of families, we sometimes speak with family members, identify the problem, and offer solutions. For families who are opposed, we try to resolve their problems to some extent through mobile phone contact, and sometimes even through letters.
ZT: Have mental health services in Afghanistan become more limited compared to the past?
Noori: Yes, unfortunately. One of the limitations relates to the loss of employment for women who worked in educational institutions, such as universities. We lost a space where girls came in very large numbers and access was very easy. There, we ran motivational and educational courses so those who were not inclined to seek counselling directly, could understand themselves and learn a path toward self-discovery. We no longer have these centres. Only medical treatment centres remain, which a limited number of people visit.
For many girls, access to counselling and psychotherapy offices has become difficult, because the cost of counselling at such centres is high. Those working under public health coverage are in a somewhat better position and can charge clients less, but this field has become very limited for those of us who worked in family counselling and educational/developmental counselling. Now most of our work happens through groups, messaging apps, and programs that, in my view, are less effective.
Previously, most of our clients were around 25 to 30 years old, either newly married or on the verge of marriage. After girls’ education was cut off in Afghanistan, most of our clients now are girls between 13 and 18 years old who have developed a kind of identity deficit after losing their educational path. Some suffer from depression, and some from an identity crisis; they don’t know what to do and cannot make decisions. Sometimes, this leads to isolation, aggression, or other very severe problems that causes them to speak with us.
ZT: Have you had girls and women come to you who had suicidal thoughts?
Noori: Yes. Unfortunately, in the first year of Taliban rule, when girls were barred from education, we encountered many people who had suicidal thoughts and even attempted suicide. In some cases we were able to prevent it, but in others, we could not. There was a girl, 14 or 15 years old, who threw herself from the Hussainzada Market in Barchi and lost her life.
It was only after that incident that we learned this girl had no one; she had been studying at a boarding facility, and when the school closed, she had nowhere left to stay, and this was what led her to act.
We had other cases, too: girls who had been studying with great enthusiasm and love, or women who were the heads of their households, running their families’ lives.
We saw many people who intended to take their own lives, and some had even decided to end their children’s lives, as well. We remain in contact with these individuals, we talk with them constantly, and we hope God will help us find a way to save them from this critical situation.
ZT: Do you have an official clinic or centre that people can visit?
Noori: No. We are family counsellors, and the core of our work is largely counselling. Because our main goal is prevention, our work was previously based mostly in universities and educational centres. We offer them guidance before they develop problems so they learn how to live, make use of opportunities, and how to think in a problem-solving way.
With the change of regime, the counselling centres in universities were taken from us. Even so, thank God, we continue our work without having a formal centre because we consider ourselves responsible to meet the needs of our community.
On a given day, usually between 5 and 20 people come to us. Some just have questions, while others are undergoing treatment, such as dealing with depression, obsessive thoughts, or other psychological conditions. They need to go through a course of sessions to return to a normal state. These sessions are usually held once a week. Most people come to us because of family problems and issues related to raising children. We also see girls at the age of puberty who cannot properly manage their behaviour, either by becoming too aggressive or falling into depression and isolation.
The issue we deal with most these days, one that comes up with nearly every client, is thoughtless marriages and failed married lives. We have people whose marriages are one, two, or three years old, some with children and some without, or even people who ran into problems during their engagement and come to us looking for a solution.
ZT: Are the existing restrictions among the main causes of problems and conflicts within families?
Noori: The existing restrictions on women and girls are among the main causes of these conflicts and problems. Of course, I don’t mean restrictions on work alone. If a woman wants to work, she needs to properly balance her married life with work outside the home.
Being deprived of education and schooling truly has a devastating effect. Today, we see a generation completely different from 10 or 20 years ago, and if we imagine the next 10 years, we will be facing a generation born to depressed mothers with mental health problems — an aggressive generation which will create enormous problems within families.
This situation exists because girls’ psyches have been tampered with; girls who, at the age of 14, which is the peak period for the formation of self-esteem and personality, find their sense of pride and maturity suppressed with the phrase, “You’re a girl, you should be at home.” This suppression will certainly affect the individual herself, her future children, and her family. The result will be a very dangerous generation.
If I were to make a prediction, the next generation will unfortunately be a very vulnerable one. A person can build a strong, sound personality only when they know themselves, their surroundings, and their environment, and make conscious decisions in light of that.
The girls who will become the mothers of the next generation cannot themselves build a clear identity for their children. What I always emphasize is that girls first need to be emotionally released and calmed before they marry. They need to be brought out of states of aggression, depression, resentment, and inner darkness. If a marriage takes place while a person is still in that tense inner state, it will not lead to a successful life, because the person has problems not only with others but with themselves as well. The calm gained through external comforts of life, including through material ease, entertainment, or food, is temporary and does not resolve inner tensions, which will grow larger over time.
Later, when a woman feels she has failed in her marriage and doesn’t know what to do, this emotional state also affects her child. According to common belief, a mother’s emotions and worries during pregnancy are transmitted to the fetus, and the child is born carrying those same emotions. In childhood, the problem may not be visible, but as the child grows older, stubbornness and tension become more apparent in their behaviour, and this can eventually pull them away from the right path.
Of course, if a girl marries while carrying these tensions, but her husband is a healthy, understanding, and supportive person able to bring her to a state of psychological calm, their life together can be successful. But unfortunately, in life today, few people have a calm mind; everyone is grappling with their own inner concerns. For this reason, it is better for girls to receive treatment and be emotionally prepared before marriage.
If someone brings a child into the world without this preparation and without awareness of their own psychological health, they will face serious challenges in raising that child. Children learn more from our behavior than from our words; and if a mother’s spirit is not sound, the child will certainly be affected in the same way and will have problems of their own.
