Abdullah Ahmadi is a human rights defender, who was awarded the International Peace Prize in South Korea in 2018. For more than two decades he has sought to make a difference in Afghanistan through his work at a variety of civil society organizations.
Now, with the Taliban repressing anyone who challenges their power and authority in Afghanistan, he is seeing the people being deprived of their fundamental rights and freedoms. Yet, for Ahmadi, who was forced to leave his homeland because of Taliban threats, hope still exists in the form of groups and individuals, especially women, who are standing up to such oppression through peaceful protests.
In April 2023, Abdullah Ahmadi was interviewed by Sayed Mehdi Hashemi, the interview and opinion editor at Zan Times. Their conversation has been edited for clarity and length.
Zan Times: Human rights violations have become widespread since the Taliban took control of Afghanistan. What is the Civil Society Joint Working Group, and what is its work?
Abdullah Ahmadi: During the era of the previous government, about 13 networks and 1,300 organizations belonged to the Civil Society Joint Working Group. We were working on three areas: coordination between civil society organizations, monitoring government activities, and advocacy. After the Taliban came to power, most of our focus has been on the issues of coordination and advocacy, mostly at the international level – issuing statements and also helping individual civil activists and human rights defenders at risk. In terms of advocacy, we had a meeting with Richard Bennett [UN special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in Afghanistan] in Geneva, Switzerland, at the office of the United Nations Human Rights Council, as well as a meeting with United Nations officials in New York, and a meeting with representatives of the European Union and the United States, at the Vienna office of the United Nations.
ZT: Do you have information about the fate of women activists in Taliban detention centres?
Ahmadi: Unfortunately, there are no exact statistics. Many were arrested in provinces such as Balkh, Kabul, Herat, and Bamyan. Their families do not dare to talk about their situations. In some cases, the bodies of those arrested were later found.
We inquired about the status of those arrested only through their family members. They are treated very badly; they are tortured, beaten, insulted, and humiliated. Also, the Taliban get access to their personal information and they are very afraid to raise these issues, because they are threatened not to talk to any media or institution.
ZT: What is the human rights situation of Hindus and Sikhs under Taliban rule?
Ahmadi: The discriminatory treatment of Hindus and Sikhs as second-class citizens caused most of them to leave Afghanistan, some even taking the ashes of their dead. At the end of 2022, the last Sikh and Hindu families – 50 and 60 families – left Afghanistan.
At the same time, the United Nations wanted to interview them. I spoke to a Sikh friend on the phone to introduce someone for an interview, but my friend said that they are really scared and cannot talk because the situation is very dangerous. He explained that there are a few more families who still want to leave Afghanistan and they are afraid that [talking] could be a problem.
ZT: What is the situation of LGBTQ community in Afghanistan?
Ahmadi: Unfortunately, under the rule of the Taliban, the situation of LGBTQ community is very, very bad. Some of them were forced to flee from Afghanistan, and the others who remain have to live underground. Their situation is worse than every other social group because according to the Taliban sharia, there is no place for them in society and they do not have any rights.
ZT: How do you evaluate the work of international human rights organizations with the situation in Afghanistan?
Ahmadi: The work of human rights organizations has been satisfactory, to some extent. Given the difficult situation that currently exists, reports produced by Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch on the human rights situation of the people are valuable. Also, organizations such as Protect Defenders, the International Federation of Human Rights, and Reporters Without Borders also try to support people at risk. But, in general, the widespread violation of human rights and the tragedies that are taking place in Afghanistan have not been able to provoke the reaction of international organizations that have executive power, including the United Nations and the European Union. For example, the European Union has a lot of capabilities, but, except for a few announcements, we have not seen anything else from it. Obviously, the United Nations has not done anything else, except for sending Richard Bennett, a special rapporteur, and preparing a report.
ZT: Why do you think international organizations could not satisfactorily defend human rights in Afghanistan?
Ahmadi: Firstly, major organizations, such as the United Nations and the European Union and other regional and international blocs that have executive power, always looked at the question of Afghanistan from a political lens. For this reason, what was expected from them regarding practical actions has not been fulfilled.
Also, Afghan civil society activists and human rights defenders could not carry out proper advocacy work due to the shock that they suffered from the collapse of the previous government. On the other hand, we did not have the capacity for strong international advocacy. Finally, a huge part of civil society work was, unfortunately, project-oriented and budget-oriented and not value-oriented, and after the collapse of organizations [in Afghanistan], many disappeared. The very limited number who wanted to work in this field did not have the ability and basic facilities.
ZT: Despite the Taliban repression, Afghan women protested many times to defend their rights. In your opinion, what mechanisms can they use to make their struggles successful?
Ahmadi: The only hope are the women activists of Afghanistan. Since the beginning of the Taliban rule, they have come to the streets and protested, raising their voices. But unfortunately, these protests have not been systematically organized. In order for these protests to be successful, there needs to be serious coordination and work to turn these protests into a women’s political movement. When we talk about a political movement, it means that it must have specific goals, demands, structure, and plans. And women should be its leaders, which would make them coordinated and coherent inside and outside Afghanistan.
ZT: Given the Taliban rule of guns and tyranny, what is the use of civil protests? Do you think civil protests can be a useful and efficient way to change the human rights situation in Afghanistan?
Ahmadi: The problem is that the Taliban is a violent military group and does not see any other messages except the sound of guns and force. But we are in the modern world – the media exists, the world sees everything, and, certainly, civil protests and civil movements and civil activities have had an effect. Women’s protests, despite widespread repression, imprisonment, and torture of protestors, caused the Taliban to not obtain international recognition. It created a major challenge for the Taliban. It showed the reality of the Taliban. They repress, but if these movements and protests become widespread then it will be difficult for the Taliban to contain and control them, especially with the current situation in Afghanistan where poverty is rampant, unemployment is high, and there is widespread discrimination. These issues are causing the number of civil protesters to gradually increase. The Taliban have no response to these protests. Protests can turn into an uprising and, as a result, cause fundamental change.
